tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post1137039383723633024..comments2023-07-06T14:50:06.294+03:00Comments on Ki Yachol Nuchal!: "Okay, People. Settle Down!"rutimizrachihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06809119908148195009noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-39200857923736856432010-03-03T04:23:30.331+02:002010-03-03T04:23:30.331+02:00Love you, Rutima!Love you, Rutima!the sabrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07134516234799909775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-43469669540362977502010-02-16T10:17:34.261+02:002010-02-16T10:17:34.261+02:00WestBankMama: Thank you.
Michael: Thanks for the...WestBankMama: Thank you.<br /><br />Michael: Thanks for the support, dear one. If you weren't already my son, I'd adopt you!rutimizrachihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06809119908148195009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-89069055574999813532010-02-14T18:50:20.810+02:002010-02-14T18:50:20.810+02:00Eema amazing post! it is a very intresting topic b...Eema amazing post! it is a very intresting topic but i think your comment to your fellow commentors said everything i was planning on writing...well done dearest mother keep on rockin'!!David Eastmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16316843949145915231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-90870457089866591402010-02-14T16:25:14.955+02:002010-02-14T16:25:14.955+02:00Great post! We all need to be gentler with each ot...Great post! We all need to be gentler with each other.westbankmamahttp://westbankmama.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-80333681203840000232010-02-12T08:59:25.065+02:002010-02-12T08:59:25.065+02:00Mordechai: Diplomatically worded, my friend. Non...Mordechai: Diplomatically worded, my friend. Nonetheless, your analogy fails. To the best of my knowledge, there are no reputable rabbis declaring that it is forbidden (or at least not a good idea) to daven three times a day or to do acts of kindness until Moshiach comes. While I am on the side of respectful and even sad disagreement, those who hold with rabbis who are opposed to aliyah should be allowed their opinions, regarding their own life decisions. NOT for the lives of others. That really is my point. Avi says that even if he would choose not to daven, he would like it if his well-meaning brethren would leave it between him and G-d (and his rabbi), and not condemn him. (Well... and his wife. I'd probably give him a hard time.)<br /><br />Susan: My point exactly. Nicely said.<br /><br />YSRM: Thank you for your kind words. It takes one to know one, my dear. Tochacha is a tough call, especially in a generation that has been told that we are unworthy to give it. Certainly, I would want to know a lot of details about the life of a person before I would ever offer him mussar about aliyah. Blanket generalizations about the subject are risky. Being hurtful is almost always forbidden.<br /><br />Ben: Exactly what I worry about. I would prefer to be an example of why living in Israel is so satisfying and awe-inspiring and amazing than to be a hammer that tells a Jew he is wrong for living in Chu"l. Haven't we learned that we can attract a Jew to the Shabbat table with smiles and songs and great food more effectively than by telling him that he is a sinner for not keeping Shabbat? BTW, there is much holy work to be done in Israel to mend relations between Jews. With so much passion, you may want to look into a position in the field. ;-)<br /><br />Anonymous: One could conversely argue that if the greatest sage in the world, Moshe, asked to come here and was denied the privilege, shouldn't we be humble about being allowed to be here... and shouldn't we understand that there are sometimes huge obstacles in the path of someone who is not here? As far as being easier to destroy if we are all in one place -- the very G-d who miraculously keeps Israel in existence will always be able to keep the Jewish people in existence. Kol hakavod in your Torah growth since coming to live in His Land! Keep up the good work, and the love and respect of a fellow Jew.<br /><br />Ben: You make my point. If I want to draw you close (to Torah observance, or to Israel), I will be more effective if I tell you how wonderful it is for me than I will be if I tell you how bad you are (chas v'shalom!) or how likely you are to fail if you try.<br /><br />BatAliyah: I admire your desire to have all Jews come Home, and your sincere concern for their safety in Chu"l in these ever-changing times. It is the matter of tone (which you mention) that I am addressing. If we truly care about the other Jew, instead of about justifying our position, then our tone of voice must be loving and supportive -- whichever side of the argument we are on. Dashing people's hopes ("Don't even try to make aliyah if you don't have $100,000 cash!") or attacking their faith ("You just don't have any trust in G-d, if you won't take the chance and move to His Land!") are not respectful or helpful methods of persuasion.<br /><br />Eileen: I agree. It took 16 years for us to get here. It could have been faster if we'd deserted my sick and indigent mother or gotten a divorce. But it just didn't seem right somehow.<br /><br />Shalomis: No WAY am I giving up on you, Girl! I just plan to wait, patiently and encouragingly, until Hashem gives you the clarity you need. As BatAliyah said, when I know that someone wants to come to Israel, I will be very supportive. But not judgmental about her timing. That is between her and G-d.rutimizrachihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06809119908148195009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-76666631760512241612010-02-11T22:56:34.842+02:002010-02-11T22:56:34.842+02:00For me, it all comes down to emunah. If everything...For me, it all comes down to emunah. If everything comes from Hashem and is a message from Him, then whatever someone says to me, "good" or "bad," is another message. What can I learn from it? Is it a test? How can I grow stronger as a result of hearing it? It's all Hashem talking to me in one way or another. As for rebuking, I personally need to study a lot more about the laws of tochacha. <br /><br />For many of us here in the U.S., moving to Israel is a dream we yearn to make a reality...but we can't remove or work around the obstacles in the way...yet. Please, don't give up on us!Shalomishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09095955570570689207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-48661973883029261032010-02-11T21:12:27.243+02:002010-02-11T21:12:27.243+02:00I feel supportive to both sides of the debate. Wh...I feel supportive to both sides of the debate. While part of me would like to make aliyah there are too many family issues that prevent it at this time. I know so many families where the family is divided, i.e. some in Israel and others in the States (or elsewhere). It is a difficult decision (either way) and we do need to respect each other for whatever choice we are CURRENTLY making.Eileenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16856519503350990372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-42453744116868610612010-02-11T19:11:23.149+02:002010-02-11T19:11:23.149+02:00We teach our kids that they can say anything to us...We teach our kids that they can say anything to us, but there's <i>a way</i> to say it. While I agree, in principle, with the need to be nice and respectful (a level I wish I always reached when it comes to the aliyah question), I differ on whether we all just need to respect one another's opinions about this. In fact, I think there is a matter of saving lives at this time in Jewish history. As I often say, this is not a pareve, personal preference decision like, say, vanilla or chocolate. <br /><br />On the other hand, I try to focus the majority of my energy on people who express an openness to aliyah already. I found that the alternative, talking to people who are closed, just makes them angry and defensive.bataliyahhttp://bataliyah.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-89763814442465384302010-02-11T19:06:04.273+02:002010-02-11T19:06:04.273+02:00In answer to Mordechai's question:
If ploni (...In answer to Mordechai's question:<br /><br /><i>If ploni (or even almoni) said that he had decided to stop dovining three times a day because it took away too much time from his parnasa ... would we be supportive or would we tell them the truth?</i><br /><br />Actually, no, I would <b>not</b> tell them "the truth", meaning as you imply, "You're wrong... you <b>must</b> daven".<br /><br />By telling someone they're wrong all you would be serving would be yourself. Personally, any time someone has told me I <b>must</b> do something, all that does is make me run away from that thing, and I don't think I am alone in that reaction. It doesn't matter how "gently" they say it.<br /><br />If you really want to help someone, just listen and validate whatever pain they're going through that is preventing them from davening (or whatever you think they should be doing). If you want to go further, tell them what davening means to <b>you</b> and how it helps <b>you</b>. Keep it positive or keep quiet. Follow the Hippocratic oath... "first of all, do no harm".<br /><br />Personally I think everyone would be a lot more religious if everyone just <b>stopped</b> doing "tochacha".Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-74046726660724725432010-02-11T18:35:09.966+02:002010-02-11T18:35:09.966+02:00If the greatest sage Moses begged to come here and...If the greatest sage Moses begged to come here and Hashem would not allow it what does that say of us that we can come here; and what does that say of those that don't?<br /><br />On the other hand id all the Jews in the world are how; much easier would it be to destroy us all forever?<br /><br />I don,t say is have anything in the way of answers. All i can say is that when i came here 5 years ago what i knew about Torah was a teardrop in a thimble, after 5 years of study in this holly land all i have learned is how big the thimble truly is. We are commanded not to judge so each must search our innermost place our soul and then do the right thing. what is right each od us has to answer this for ourselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-45658922292233332122010-02-11T18:14:55.376+02:002010-02-11T18:14:55.376+02:00The problem I have with living in Israel is the wh...The problem I have with living in Israel is the whole atmosphere of machlokes among Jews... everyone has to be in a certain "box"... chareidi, data leumi, chiloni... that is basically all there is. If you don't think you are in any of these boxes ... Tough! Others will put you in one. And woe to you if they put you in a different box than they put themselves in. So much energy is spent in attacking each other that the point of Judaism is lost. It's hard to work on growing in Judaism if at every turn some stranger is walking up to you and criticizing what you're doing and telling you you're not frum enough or not zionist enough or whatever they think is wrong with you. At least in Chutz L'Aretz you can grow at your own pace without having to fight all that craziness that has nothing to do with Hashem or Torah.Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-69778835812303759072010-02-11T17:31:39.176+02:002010-02-11T17:31:39.176+02:00It's a tough call. When we see someone we love...It's a tough call. When we see someone we love doing something that we feel deep down is dangerous and harmful, we scream like we would if our kid ran into the street. However in these instances we have more than the split second you do when your kid steps off the curb.<br /><br />The halacha (law) of tochecha (rebuke) is brought right before ve'ahavta l'rei'echa (love your neighbor).<br /><br />I agree with Mordechai (whoever you are and whatever 'side' you are on) that there are things that have to be said. They have to be said in a voice that the listener can hear, though, and with a heavy dose of love. Because that's what it's all about, right?<br /><br />Ruti you are the FINEST and bow before your immense love of your people and ALL of G-d's children.Ye'he Sh'mey Raba Mevorachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10880916203103730085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-33598080328413636352010-02-11T17:30:42.946+02:002010-02-11T17:30:42.946+02:00As per usual Ruti, an amazing point to make and I ...As per usual Ruti, an amazing point to make and I agree that every persons decision is a personal one with their own set of special circumstances. We cannot understand or feel their anguish or delight at their arrival at their own life changing decisions, but we can offer them all the help, reassurance and support they need to make the most of what ever decision they make.susannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2873285922620200649.post-5656067657298224242010-02-11T16:24:53.416+02:002010-02-11T16:24:53.416+02:00Noble and heart felt thoughts. But, I would ask y...Noble and heart felt thoughts. But, I would ask you the following question: If ploni (or even almoni) said that he had decided to stop dovining three times a day because it took away too much time from his parnasa; or if plonit (or almonit) said that she had decided to stop doing chesed because it took her away from her kids-would we be supportive or would we tell them the truth? Nicely, yes (you couldn't do otherwise if you tried), but the truth.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06716537396014292602noreply@blogger.com